SJFE : Women and Law in Europe

PARITY : A DECISIVE STEP TOWARDS GENDER DEMOCRACY AND EQUALITY

January 1997 (English, French)

Edith Cresson European Commissaire, European Commission interviewed by Professor Francine Demichel (Paris 8 University)

French women are largely unrepresented

F. D. : With a group of nine French women politicians, who were all ministers in former right or left wing governments, you created an action group and published a manifesto to support parity and political democracy for women. You have advocated a reform of the Constitution as a means to achieve your goal. Could you expose your point of view and the aims of your group ?

"France is a clever country which is good at giving lessons - lessons in democracy to the whole world it has only 5% of women elected to its national Parliament, (At the last general election (June 1966), 63 women out 577 MP's were returned to Parliament, the rate of women thus rising to a little more than 10%), less than Greece or Portugal, less even than countries usually characterized as deeply conservative, catholic or traditional. The European countries that have made the greatest progress in gender are the Nordic countries : they have taken positive measures to enforce parity - or quasi-parity - by imposing compulsory quotas of women elected in national or local elections.

But in France we are very far from any kind of parity and we will never reach it, at least within a reasonable time-limit, without positive action and affirmative measures. In fact, under the pretence of equality between men and women - equal treatment of the sexes as they allege - a large number of male politicians and representatives are strongly opposed to any kind of positive measures in favour of women. But the male electorate diverges from the political parties on this issue. Many male voters trust women and elect them when they are lucky enough to be candidates. The real problem is candidature : the difficulty for women is to be nominated by their parties in primaries. There would be many more women elected in France if there were more female candidates on the electoral lists, presented by their parties to the suffrage of the voters."

A reform of the constitution is needed to achieve political equality

All the proposals made in the past to fix a quota for women to be elected to our National Assembly (our Parliament) have systematically been over-valed by the "Conseil constitutionnel" (a specifically French body, without any equivalent elsewhere in Europe, whose job it to decide whether legislation is in keeping with the French Constitution, or not) under the pretext of protecting equal rights for all and every citizen before the law. As I am convinced that the Conseil constitutionnel will never change its mind on the quotas, we think that, to achieve political equality between men and women some day, every citizen of this country, whether man or woman, should be mobilized and involved.

This is why we think that the Constitution should be reformed, and that a reform of this sort should be decided by universal suffrage, that is by referendum, the issue thus becoming a public and national one. Very concrete and positive measures will have to be taken to achieve parity, not all at once, but step by step. It will take some time, maybe ten years, by doubling the number of women elected in successive elections. But we will need incentives, like restrictive financing for the parties which do not comply with the female quotas laid down. Anyhow, it will not be possible without a broadly based social movement, without a serious analysis of the reasons for the extraordinary backwardness of the French political and social system. It will not be possible either without a strong women's movement.

The promotion of legal opportunities by the EU.

F. D. : Do you think that the directives and measures already taken at E.U. level can produce greater gender democracy and help progress in the political status of women, in France and in the EU countries at large ?

A certain number of texts and measures have already been voted by the European Parliament and directives issued by the Commission, many of them as a result of proposals by various action groups and committees like the Commission for Women's rights, the European trade unions or NGOS... The European Commission has taken measures in the fields compatible with the subsidiarity principle, especially in the professional and occupational sphere. It has issued directives on gender and equal treatment on the labour market : equal treatment in the workshop and occupational positions, equal recognition of academic grades and degrees, parental leave for both parents. These provisions, even if they are still insufficient, have brought real progress in the situation and status of European women, especially in the countries which had unfair social gender legislation or practices. But the EU cannot intervene in the domains linked with national sovereignty or in the fields of action reserved to the member States : they cannot interfere in the rules of the national political systems. A sex -discriminating political apparatus

Anyhow, I am not convinced that European integration is a good way to solve the French problem and help greater integration of French women in politics and the public sphere. The issue is not one for women only. The elitist conception of the French system, the total ignorance of what is going on in the rank and file, the increasing gap between the people and the elites give the impression of two trains going at full speed in opposite directions that will crash some day. The French way of tackling problems mechanically, of always trying to find technical solutions to every problem, of resorting to measures which are the outcome of arbitration and suppressing public debate, are mostly ineffectual. We need a new way of seeing things, of posing problems, and it will only come not from women, but also from men, many of whom are totally excluded from the system because they do not belong to the famous French networks ("grandes écoles", public administration bodies...). I think we are on the brink of great change, maybe not a revolution, but real change. And if it does not happen, there will be serious social unrest. Women must situate themselves in that perspective.

Women are discriminated against by male politicians

F. D. : You have, for a long time, been a woman politician, holding senior positions in the state administration - you were the first French woman Prime Minister. Could you tell us what lessons you have learnt from your personal experience and what obstacles you had to face ?

Of course, I am quite familiar with all the difficulties and obstacles that pave the way of French women politicians. The very evening I was appointed Prime Minister, before I even could say a single word, I was already judged by the media, which unanimously claimed it was a disaster. And yet, according to an opinion poll, 70% of the respondants said that it was a good thing for France to have a woman Prime Minister. The fact of asking the French to state their opinion was shocking in itself : when it is a man who is appointed, the French are not asked to give their opinion. I had to face the hostility of male politicians and of the male political class at large. Everything was wrong with me : the pitch of my voice was inadequate, I served coffee to my collaborators, which scandalized the press (senior male politicians also did so, but in their case it was not considered abnormal). Outrages, degrading criticism of very low level was common practice from part of the press, even from some of its "distinguished" members But I am not the only woman to have been harshly treated. Other women, from other parties, ministers or MPs, have lived through the same experience. As I already said, the electorate behave in a much more democratic way. At Châtellerault, which is not a particularly radical place, the electorate trust me - I was elected mayor for the third time with 60% of the votes - because the voters judge me uniquely by my actions, which they consider as positive.

Sexist attitude of the media

I must add that the behaviour of part of the journalists, of male senior executives and politicians was shameful and gave a very poor image of the national representation. I had to face the permanent hostility of the media because I refused all kinds of agreements with them. Journalists like to influence politicians, they like to feel that they are a pressure group. They can say anything they want, they are never sanctioned : they have not been elected and are responsible to nobody. In France we have an executive power, a legislative power and a so-called counter-power : the almighty media. This is not the practice of a democratic state. This is why I said the problem goes beyond gender issue. And with my fellow partners who signed the manifesto, we demanded something very important : that sexist insults be considered analogous to racist acts and, as such, be punished by the law. It is not the case in France yet, but other countries already do so.

Ten French women politicians signed a manifesto for parity

Our group has, among its purposes, long-term reflection and analysis of the obstacles existing in French society. We also want to raise public debate on gender issues, so as to turn it into a political issue, and to make proposals to reform the law and the practices. It is long-term action, and our initiative is just one amongst many others. There are many other groups, some with a long militant past, there are women's groups and associations - which have long been involved in the struggle for fairer gender relations, for more democratic women's rights, and there are also men supporting them in this struggle.

Yourself, with your European colleagues, are one of the relays. Your consideration in the frame work of the SOCRATES programme, on the legal status of women, not only in France but throughout the EU, deals with one of the most decisive aspects, because of the power of law. Good will is not enough to eradicate deep ingrained attitudes. A comparison between the different national legislations will prove a fruitful approach, because it will reveal the national specificities with their negative but also their positive attitudes, practices and legal status which could serve as a reference to reform gender legislation in a more democratic way.

SOCRATES pilot module : the legal status of women in the EU

But, of course, I do bear in mind that the main goal of the programme subsidised by the European Commission is to teach a basic comparative course on that topic. It is a good way of making the young Europeans, the young male and female European students who are tomorrow's citizens and decision-makers, aware of one of our major social issues on the eve of the third millennium. I believe in education as a good means of promoting change in ways and attitudes. That is why I would like to express my support for your enterprise, and wish your programme every success.